Chad H Webb: Welcome to our panel discussion. We are grateful to be joined today by Elder Kim B. Clark, who is the Commissioner of Church Education; Sister Bonnie Oscarson, Young Women General President; and Tom Valletta, the director of Curriculum for Seminaries and Institutes. And then we’re also grateful to be joined today by two of our seminary teachers: Sister Heidi Weed, who teaches in Salt Lake City, and Brother Dan Hedlund, who teaches in Layton, Utah. Thank you all for joining us today.
Well, as we talk a little bit about Doctrinal Mastery, we wanted to start by asking Elder Clark, if you would address the question about how Doctrinal Mastery came to be—its origins and its purpose—and why we’re having this initiative that is Doctrinal Mastery.
Elder Kim B. Clark: I would be happy to. About a year ago I was asked to take a look at how we might help the rising generation better deal with questions that they have about doctrine, about Church history, about their lives and what’s happening in the world around them. And so I began talking with a number of people and thinking about that challenge. And Brother Webb and I spent some time together talking through those issues. One day he came into my office, and he said, ”I have an idea.” We sat down around the table and he began to tell me his idea, and I felt the Spirit of the Lord. And I realized that I was listening to revelation. He proposed this idea of taking the time in seminary that we normally and historically have spent doing Scripture Mastery and use that time to do something he called ”Doctrinal Mastery.” And the idea was to do exactly what we had been working on—to help students in seminary, especially, cope with and answer questions that they have but also learn how to apply the doctrines that they learn to challenges they face in their personal lives, challenges their friends have, questions that come up in lots of different settings, so that the gospel becomes not only something that they live in their personal lives but something that they love and share and becomes the way they interact with people. It becomes the lens through which they see life around them, and this process becomes one of the important ways they become deeply converted unto the Lord. And I think that’s how it started.
When you see Doctrinal Mastery, you should see it as a revelatory experience. It came through revelation. I felt that, and I’ve seen it happen. I think it’s a miracle that it’s happened as fast as it has. When we first took it to the Board of Education and talked about it with the members of the Executive Committee, for example, they were very, very enthusiastic. And the First Presidency and the members of the Board likewise. And so, I think it’s a wonderful program. And now comes the interesting part, which is to make it a reality and make it really happen.
Brother Webb: Thank you. And we really appreciate your contributions to all that’s gone into creating this Doctrinal Mastery initiative. There have been a lot of people who have been involved and really blessed our conversations and decisions and, ultimately, the curriculum and training that’s going into Doctrinal Mastery. So, thank you very much.
The first part of Doctrinal Mastery has to do with helping young people to learn how to acquire spiritual knowledge. Not just giving them answers to questions, but helping them to learn how to think about information and how to study and how to turn to the Lord to learn eternal truth. Why is it an important idea to first teach them how to acquire spiritual knowledge before just giving answers to questions?
Heidi H. Weed: We’ve noticed in our seminary classes, as students rest on the foundation of doctrinal principles, they have the confidence to go forward and try implementing some of the ideas that we teach them in seminary classes in their real lives. And I think that one of the reasons it’s so important is they have foundational principles to rest upon.
Brother Webb: Thank you.
Bonnie L. Oscarson: There’s that old example of “You can hand a man a fish or you can teach him how to fish.” And I think that applies here. We’re teaching them skills that will nourish them spiritually for the rest of their lives rather than just giving them a scripture to memorize.
Brother Webb: Thank you.
Brother Dan Hedlund: I saw that a bit in my classroom as we piloted this Doctrinal Mastery program. I felt like the format of how the curriculum is written really allows for questions to be asked. And it fosters this discussion of doctrinal questions. And having taught the “Acquiring Spiritual Knowledge” lesson upfront gives you, kind of, the foundation to then build on throughout the rest of the year as these questions get asked in your class.
Elder Clark: Can I just make one observation? I think both of you have highlighted the importance of the engagement of the student in the process. And I think what we’re learning about Doctrinal Mastery—and I think it’s true in all learning—is that the content is really helpful and is immediate in the student’s mind. But what we really care about is the process that they go through because that’s what changes them. What converts them unto the Lord is they have private, personal spiritual experiences. And you only get that if you go looking for it and seeking after spiritual knowledge.
Brother Webb: Thank you. Brother Valletta, did you want to add something?
Tom Valletta: Just in conjunction with what has been said, the students will have the opportunity to take practice examples and apply those principles over and over again. And, of course, each scenario or case study that they’ll be presented with will be just a little bit different, and they’ll have to engage with those principles that are taught in “Acquiring Spiritual Knowledge,” and in a little bit of a different way. They’ll have to interact, and they’ll work with each other. And one student will probably say, “I think I would’ve used this principle at this moment,” and another will take it a little bit different, with a different angle.
Brother Webb: In addition to learning principles and patterns for acquiring spiritual knowledge, they’ll then study the nine doctrinal topics that have been identified in the Come, Follow Me curriculum and that we’ve been using in seminary as well. And then they apply those principles in the study of certain doctrinal principles that have been identified. So, I guess the next question might be: What’s the value of learning true doctrine?
Sister Oscarson: Can I lead out with a quote that I think we all have heard Elder Packer use several times during the course of his lessons that he’s taught us? He said:
“True doctrine, understood, changes attitudes and behavior.
“The study of the doctrines of the gospel will improve behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve behavior.”1
I think that the whole key to this is that understanding doctrine gets it into their hearts. It’s something that they will internalize then and will come out in the way that they live the gospel and the way they interact with those around them.
Brother Webb: Thank you. Other thoughts on that?
Elder Clark: I have one thought.
Brother Webb: Please.
Elder Clark: Sister Oscarson quoted President Packer. He used a word that she always used in explaining it, which is understand true doctrine. And so we teach to understanding, which is something that happens in your mind and also in your heart. And when that happens, then that’s exactly what happens, is students learn the principles, and they internalize them. And I think they also come to understand that whenever you act according to truth, you have power in your life. Power flows because you’re acting according to truth in your life. And that’s a really important lesson to learn.
Brother Webb: Thank you. Please.
Brother Valletta: I was just going to say, I think it’s really helpful. The better they understand that true doctrine, when they face an issue or concern or a question or just a principle of the gospel that they’re trying to understand in the context of all the worldly influence, they can take that issue and reframe it in the context of that true doctrine and it will help them get to an eternal perspective which then you can approach how to respond to that issue or question.
Brother Webb: That’s a really great thought. Thank you all. There are just so many opinions and voices out there, to have that anchor that they can turn to and have the security of knowing truth, to measure everything else they’re hearing against is really a blessing. So, thank you.
Would you talk for just a minute about the role of the student in all of this? I know there are some that have been concerned that we continue to add expectations for our young people and they live in a world with a lot of demands and expectations for their time and attention and here is one more thing that’s going to require something of our youth. What would you say about raising expectations for our youth and what this will require of them?
Brother Hedlund: My thought is that when I first was asked to pilot this and I was reading through the ”Acquiring Spiritual Knowledge” lesson, I was not skeptical, maybe a little doubtful—not as to whether or not they needed it but as to whether or not they would be engaged in the content that I was teaching. Do they really care enough about acquiring spiritual knowledge? And after teaching just the first period, I was blown away at their level of engagement and participation and how interested they were in it. And not only that, but how many experiences they’ve had already in their lives with acquiring spiritual knowledge. And I think at that point I realized that not only talk about the expectations that are being placed on them, I think they want those increased expectations. I think that they are looking forward to learning the doctrines that are being taught and how they can apply to various situations that they encounter in their lives. So yeah, maybe a little bit of increased expectations, but I don’t think it’s unwanted expectations.
Brother Webb: Thank you. Sister Weed.
Sister Weed: One of the things we do—sometimes it’s challenging to expect these students to do more. And one of the things we found that we need to do is adapt what we’re asking them to do to the needs of the students. We’ll read questions with them, and we’ll make sure that they know and understand the doctrines. And it becomes a really wonderful experience for those kids, rather than a stressful or rather than an uncomfortable situation for them. And those are my favorite days in seminary when one on one I get to sit down and make sure students understand the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Brother Webb: Thank you.
Sister Oscarson: They’ve already been doing Scripture Mastery and spending time on that. I consider this just to be a step up with what they’ve already been doing with Scripture Mastery. And I firmly believe what you said, that our youth have a great desire to be valiant in their testimonies and to live the gospel. And this is giving them a greater tool to do that, to take these scriptures that they—a lot of them—are already familiar with, and now giving them a deeper understanding of that. I think our youth will rise to the highest level of expectation we have of them. And if we don’t expect anything of them, they may not be able to achieve that. I said it two years ago in this setting that where we expect more, the youth will come through. And I was talking to you earlier about what’s happened with the higher …
Brother Webb: Requirements and expectations.
Sister Oscarson: … Requirements. Thank you. That word just went out of my head. That the higher requirements for graduation now. And the statistics bear out that these youth will rise to what we’ve asked them to do because they have a desire to be the kind of people that Heavenly Father wants them to be.
Elder Clark: Can I just make one observation too? I think there’s another side to this, which is if we don’t raise the bar for ourselves and how we teach, what we teach, and what we expect, we will encounter students who will say to us, a lot of them who will say to us, “I already had this. I already know this. Do you have more? Because I got this when I was five and six and seven. So is there more?” And of course there’s more. There’s lots more. And we just need to be ready to give it to them.
I have a five-year-old—I was really surprised by this—I have a five-year-old granddaughter who taught a family home evening lesson on Joseph in Egypt. She’s five. Of course she’s pretty precocious, but still, you know. And she taught, and I asked her, “Well, did you teach about Potiphar’s wife?” “Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We know about that.” So, I think we’re talking about a generation of young people that is coming through the Church—because the Church is really moving to teach doctrine at a young age. And we need to be ready for a generation that wants more, that wants really powerful things. Exactly what President J. Reuben Clark said long ago: These young people “want it straight.”2 They want it clear, accurate, real. They want the real stuff. And Doctrinal Mastery is going to do that.
Brother Webb: And that’s going to require a lot of our teachers in their preparation and in their gospel study and scholarship and their ability to respond to questions and to direct students to the right sources and information. You know, speaking of the students, maybe one other quick thought: They certainly recognize the need for this. They’ve asked for this.
Brother Haws was in a seminary classroom a few months ago where he asked the students, “Have you had any questions about the Church’s history or doctrine that you have either thought of or have been asked of you?” And almost every hand in the class went up. He started to make a list on the board of all of their questions. And then he said, “How many of you feel comfortable that you can answer these questions?” And very few of them did.
He said, “If seminary could help you to answer these questions, or to help someone else find answers to these questions, would that bless you?” And universally in this class, they were very excited about that idea. In fact, he said, “This will really bless you and help you. I’m sure you’re confronted with this, you know, maybe once a month or so,” and they laughed. And he said, “Is it more often than that?” And they all said, “It’s every day. It’s every day on the Internet. It’s every day at school, with family members. We need this because we’re confronted with it all the time.”
So thank you. I think they not only will rise to our level of expectation, but they personally recognize the need for this and are anxious to have the help.
Speaking of our students and the experiences, maybe we could turn to Sister Weed and Brother Hedlund for some explanation as you’ve been piloting this. Can you tell us a little bit about your experience in Doctrinal Mastery—the students’ responses and how it’s blessing them?
Sister Weed: Well, we had a great experience initiating this in our seminary. One of the things we discovered after day 1 was we invited a few students to take notes live as we were having the experience, as we were inviting students to engage. And it was exciting to read their comments after the fact as they acknowledged this engagement, this higher level of participation in the scriptures and thinking about them and considering them and then applying them to real-life situations as we taught them this pattern for acquiring spiritual knowledge and then had them apply it to gospel topics.
Brother Hedlund: One particular experience that I had a young woman share in class as I was teaching the ”Acquiring Spiritual Knowledge” lesson. Her parents are divorced, and she had the question that I think lot of youth in our classes have as far as sealing works: “Who will I be with in the eternities? And how will all that work out?” And she told of an experience that she had had. She said, “I had had that question for—it bugged me ever since my parents got the divorce.” And she said, “I decided to find an answer myself.” So she went looking in the scriptures. And she said this process took a while for her, but one night while she was reading in the Doctrine and Covenants, this verse of scripture just ... no doubts whatsoever in her mind. She didn’t share with us what the scripture was. And I don’t think that was the point of her story. But this is the comment she made. She said, “As soon as I read that scripture,” she said, “I knew that God had answered my question, resolved my doubt for now.” And I thought that was profound. She said, “If, in the future, I ever have these doubts again, I know the pattern that I need to follow.” And I thought that was really, really profound of this young woman to say, like, I know enough right now to live according to—it goes back to what Elder Holland just said, right? We hold true to what we know. Hold true to that faith that we have until additional light, until additional knowledge comes. And to see this young woman live that and apply that in her life was inspiring for me and for everybody else in our class.
Brother Webb: Thank you. You know, it’s interesting you say that because I happened to be talking to a seminary student last week in my own home. We didn’t plan it this way, but my daughter happens to be in one of these pilot classes. And I asked her how she liked Doctrinal Mastery, and she said, “I love it. It’s so much more helpful than Scripture Mastery has been.” And I said, “In what way?” And her answer was one word, “It’s relevant.” Well, it’s two words. But relevant. It’s relevant. And that’s why it’s helpful. It matters to me because it’s helping with things that are relevant to the questions I have and the situations I face. And so thank you for saying that. Any other thoughts on that?
Brother Valletta: Could I just mention that those Doctrinal Mastery passages tie in to the key statements of doctrine. As those who are being taught, after they’ve reviewed the entire doctrinal topic, then they’ll look at these specific statements of doctrine. And it’s just not enough for most of the young people to think, “Well, this must be true because my seminary teacher or somebody taught me.” But, in fact, they have statements from the scriptures and plenty of others as you go through the learning experiences, words of the prophets that help them understand those key statements of doctrine and tie so closely together.
So, the first one, for example, in “The Godhead” is Hebrews 12:9: “Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reference: shall we not much rather be in subjection to the Father of our spirits, and live?”
And the young people will never, ever forget that passage as they learn that key doctrinal statement. So when somebody asks them, “Well, how do you know that?” there’s lots of sources they could go to, from the hymn ”I Am a Child of God” to this passage from Paul in Hebrews on, yes, Heavenly Father is the Father of my spirit. And that’s taught very well. And as they go through the scenarios, then they actually see various ways that can apply and that they can teach it to others.
Brother Webb: You know, that’s so important because we’ve heard a lot of students who can answer all the questions on the test, right? They know what the doctrine teaches. They even know a lot of the scripture references, but then they’re confronted with a situation or a question and don’t always make the connection to what they’re dealing with with the doctrine that they’ve learned. And so from what you’ve just said, I think it’s good for teachers to understand that this is also an opportunity to connect this doctrinal principle with a real-life scenario or a case study so that they can see how it relates and blesses them in real-life settings.
Brother Hedlund: And just to add onto that, the thing about these scenarios is they have to be relevant. And the more relevant that they can be, I think the better the students will have a chance of relating with them and wanting to continue learning the Doctrinal Mastery. In my study—and this is maybe where adopting and adapting the curriculum comes in—but if there’s a practice that you maybe have a personal example of that’s a little different than what’s in the manual, but if it can be personal to you or personal to them, I think that’s the best way to go about those practices. Would I be …
Brother Valletta: Oh, no, we …
Brother Hedlund: Okay.
Brother Valletta: … agree wholeheartedly. In fact, one of the things that you’ll see we hope is that the young people begin to bring in issues and questions and scenarios of their own that are real life, and you can work with them together in the classroom answering, you know, reframing the question or issue, placing it in eternal perspective. That’s great. We think that’s the way to go.
Sister Oscarson: Can I just say, too, what a great blessing it is as I look at the youth curriculum that they’re being taught on Sunday, Come, Follow Me, how well these just interface with each other and support one another. And they’re learning in their Sunday classes to share real-life examples with one another and testify to one another. And this reinforcement, now that they’re doing it both in seminary and on Sunday, is going to be a great blessing in their lives. As I first heard you introduce this new program to me, I felt the same inspiration. I felt like it was revelation. This is the next step that our youth need.
Brother Webb: All right, let’s go back for just a few minutes on the role of the teacher here. What else would you say about that and what’s required of our teachers to do this well?
Sister Weed: My experience is that we have been given a charge from Elder Ballard to step up our gospel knowledge. We have got to be more prepared than we’ve ever been before to answer the difficult questions that our students bring. In addition, we’ve got to know this process backwards and forwards. We’ve got to live it in our own lives in such ways that we can bear testimony of it and maybe walk them through experiences we have had in acquiring spiritual knowledge on our own and so we can be prepared when they come with difficult questions to the classroom.
Brother Hedlund: I’d just say preparation. I feel like, as a teacher, being able to walk into a classroom and put a trash can on the piano bench and shoot some baskets while we talk about Scripture Mastery, those days are gone, I feel like. And I feel like it took a bit of preparation, extra preparation, for me to sit down. Because they’re really—you’re calling them experiences, but they’re really mini lessons. And so there’s a bit more that goes into it on the front end. But it’s not much different than sequential scripture teaching in that we identify the doctrinal statements. They are identified very well for us. We understand those. We practice teaching those. So the flow of teaching is just like we do in sequential scripture teaching, but it takes a bit more preparation on the front end, I felt.
Brother Webb: Thank you. One other question about the case studies and scenarios that have been referenced. And maybe, Elder Clark, if I could ask you. You’re such a good teacher in using case studies, and I’ve seen you teach in a way that really is impactful using this kind of teaching. What would you say is the value of using case studies and real-life scenarios and helping students to connect the doctrine to their real lives?
Elder Clark: I think there are two words that come to mind that have been used already in our conversation. One is relevant—that you choose things that really relate to the students. They live this. And I think the materials that have been produced have done a nice job of that. Things that are really relevant to them. What that does is it makes it interesting, and, therefore, you get the second word, which is you get engagement. The students really get engaged with the material. And two things happen. One is the situation itself. As you get into it and you start to think “Well, what would you do?” what happens in the student’s mind is they put themselves in that situation, and they start rehearsing in their minds “Well, yeah. What would I do?” And that begins to help them spiritually get in tune with the Spirit that comes, that helps teach them about “Well, this is what you should do.”
The other thing that happens is that the doctrine comes alive. It becomes real. It’s not just something they’ve checked off and said, “Yeah, I know this.” Now it becomes real. It becomes something you use in your life. And I think we can help them see that it’s not just learning these things so that, you know, tomorrow morning if somebody asks you a question, you’ll kind of know what to do. It’s “Well, what if you’re a mother and you have kids that have questions?” Oh, this is going to be powerful. You’re going to know what to do. Or if you’re a missionary and you go into the mission field and you have investigators, you’re going to be comfortable because you will have had real-life situations and you will have put yourself in them. You’ll have had experience in thinking them through. So I think that’s a really important part of it.
The other thing that happens—and both of you have mentioned this already—is you can get students talking to each other and interacting with each other. And that means you have to trust your students that they’ll really do it. But they will. So you can—the teacher can—instead of just telling them things, you become an asker of questions. You can summarize a little bit. But you also can say, “Well, Sally, what do you think of that, what Billy over here just said?” And Sally says, “Well, I don’t think that’s what I’d do.” “Okay, why not? And what do you think of that?” And pretty soon the students are kind of talking to each other and interacting, and there’s just energy in that classroom because the Holy Ghost comes and informs them about what they’re doing. It’s a really powerful way to get students engaged in a process that will bless their lives forever.
Brother Webb: Thank you. So, maybe one other question. There have been a lot of changes in seminaries and institutes in the last few years, and for some, that’s a difficult thing to be asked to do more or to be asked to do something different or to change in any way. Any advice to all of us as we experience yet another change?
Brother Valletta: I’ll just add this. As you were talking about the changes, I was thinking of Doctrine and Covenants 42:61: “[You’ll] receive revelation upon revelation.” And Heavenly Father’s kingdom seems to build on revelation. There’s additional light and knowledge, brighter and brighter is what section 50 talks about. It just seems like we’re moving in that direction. And I have to have the faith, as a teacher, to strive to not only respond rather than react to the change, but to try and keep up with where the Lord wants us to go. And I have to have the faith rather than grouse about “Oh, no, not another pendulum swing!” But I have to have the faith to say, “If Heavenly Father thinks we can make this work, it certainly will work.” And kind of the “I will go and do.” And teachers, like these two, who have taken that pilot and moved forward with faith, have been blessed, and they’ve seen that, and you can hear the excitement in their voices.
Brother Webb: Thank you very much.
Sister Oscarson: Could I just add too: Anyone that works with the youth knows that the world is changing and that they are being exposed to philosophies and ideas just because of the explosion of the Internet and social media. They are being exposed to more negative influences in their lives than ever before in the history of the world. And this is a response to stepping up to helping them meet those challenges. We need to keep changing. We need to keep progressing. We need to keep strengthening the way we teach and interact with our youth so that they can meet those challenges. I think most teachers will embrace this. I don’t think it’s going to be seen as a negative thing: “Oh, dear! We have to change to something new.” This will be such a great blessing for helping them arm their youths to face what they need in the world each day.
Elder Clark: Could I just add something, Chad? I want to bear witness of what’s been said and what Sister Oscarson said about change. I would just say to the teachers, and to all of us, get used to it. It’s going to happen. Get used to it. God is moving with power in His kingdom. And things are going to change. And they are changing. And they’re going to keep changing because we need to prepare the kingdom of God for the return of the Lord, Jesus Christ. And we’re not there yet. That’s evident. And we’re just going to see more and more of it. So that’s one thing.
The second thing is, when change comes like this, it’s very important for all of us to ask ourselves two questions: What should I change? What are the things I need to change? But also, you need to ask: What should not change in how I respond to this? So, for example, in Doctrinal Mastery, yeah, there are some things that need to change. You’ve talked about some of them. But there are definitely things that should not change. Don’t abandon the things that you know really are powerful in your own personal approach to your students—your love for them, the Spirit of the Lord in the classroom, your testimony, bearing pure testimony to them from your own experiences. You know, that doesn’t change. The gospel doesn’t change. It’s just the structure of how we engage the students and bringing a topical focus into a sequential scripture class that’s different. So we’re going to have to change some stuff, but there are a lot of things that don’t change. And we need to hold on to those things and make sure that when you walk into that classroom every day you have the Spirit of the Lord with you. If you do that, and you use these great materials, things are going to be great.
Brother Webb: Thank you. Before we close, Sister Oscarson, could we ask you to share whatever you would like to, knowing that you pray every day for hundreds of thousands of young women who sit in our seminary classrooms and having had the experience of teaching early-morning seminary. Having had that experience, knowing what this has to offer, would you like to share how you feel about this and what you would share about the young women and even the young men in our seminary classes?
Sister Oscarson: I think our youth are more outstanding than any we’ve ever seen, in all the generations I’ve observed. I think they have a desire to do what is right, and I think they have a greater understanding of who they are. You mentioned your granddaughter at age five who is teaching a family home evening lesson. These are the youth that are coming into our classrooms today. And this just makes me thrilled that we’re going to step it up as far as helping them to understand how to apply the doctrines of Jesus Christ to their individual circumstances and lives. To get it, it’s not going to be an abstract principle anymore. It’s going to be something that really is something they take into their hearts and learn. And I’m just so grateful for the continual revelation that we receive in the Church that blesses and strengthens our youth. I’m excited for what’s going to happen with this Doctrinal Mastery.
Brother Webb: Thank you very much. And Elder Clark, would you please take the last word and share with us whatever you’d like to?
Elder Clark: Well, as I said at the beginning, I think this is revelation. This is the Lord moving to position us to educate and develop the rising generation, and in a more powerful way than we’ve ever done before. And we know that when we’re in tune with the Lord and we follow His direction and His revelation, we’ll get more revelation and we’ll get greater insight. And you’ve already started to experience it. So I think this is a marvelous, a marvelous innovation and will be a great blessing to our teachers and to our students. And I think it will be a great blessing to your families because you better take this home with you. You know, if you have children still at home or grandchildren, you can use this with them. And it will be a great blessing all around.
And I just want to also say something, Chad. I’m pretty sure Sister Oscarson prays for the young men too because the young men need to marry the young women. And they all need to get themselves ready to be mothers and fathers in an eternal family. And if we keep that in mind and recognize what God is really doing here, we’ll be fine. We’ll have a great experience with these youth because these are great young people. Wonderful young people. But they need direction, guidance, support, encouragement, strength that comes from some who have walked the path a little farther along and who know the Lord and who can bear witness of His divine and marvelous atoning sacrifice and who bring that every day into the classroom with a sense of love for the kids and just lift them. And you will. And now you’ll have a way to do it that will be just marvelous for them. Great blessings all around.
Brother Webb: Thank you. Thank you all very much. It’s wonderful to be with you today.
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